Curse

BaconSoda · Mar 05, 2008, 01:16 AM // 01:16

My question is:

Why do farming groups in places such as Urgoz and Tombs still use [skill]Barrage[/skill]?

There is a new EotN skill named Volley that brings to the table everything that barrage has, yet leave room for a utility elite. So, why Barrage?

Julia-Louis Dreyfus · Mar 05, 2008, 01:18 AM // 01:18

barrage is better than volley, more dmg, more targets, faster recharge.
and rangers lack good elites

isamu kurosawa · Mar 05, 2008, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Because barrage still hits more foes and more importantly people refuse to change.

BaconSoda · Mar 05, 2008, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julia-Louis Dreyfus

barrage is better than volley, more dmg, more targets, faster recharge.
and rangers lack good elites

I thought the advent of Splinter Weapon dwarfed barrage's dmg output....And with Volley you can take full advantage of splinter just like with barrage, with utility such as [skill]Broad head Arrow[/skill] or [skill]Spike Trap[/skill]/[skill]Smoke Trap[/skill] or [skill]Magebane Shot[/skill], or if you wanna delve into other secondaries and have someone else splinter you there is always [skill]Ward Against Harm[/skill] for those Terrorwebs in Tombs, or [skill]Fevered Dreams[/skill] in conjunction with the above mentioned BHA. for massive caster shutdown...Although that can be done with [skill]Epidemic[/skill] as well....

But still, why barrage if (to my understanding) the main dmg came from splinter?

Stormlord Alex · Mar 05, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Barrage hits more foes for more damage, more often (Barrage can be fired non-stop, given the cooldown and refire rate on the bow).

All them utility-type elites are moot - the whole point of the Ranger is to nuke away at massive mobs in these teams, and no other elite will do more for the team as a whole than barrage - Broadhead Arrow, for instance, is cute but pointless when you've got 5 guys with Savage and Distracting Shots to spam away with.

MasterSasori · Mar 05, 2008, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaconSoda

My question is:

Why do farming groups in places such as Urgoz and Tombs still use [skill]Barrage[/skill]?

There is a new EotN skill named Volley that brings to the table everything that barrage has, yet leave room for a utility elite. So, why Barrage?

The answer: The "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality. If whatever elite you replace Barrage with is anything short of pure awesomeness, don't expect any changes. People are just lazy.

Div · Mar 05, 2008, 06:34 AM // 06:34

It's not just because people don't want to change. What is there to change to? Ok, so you replace barrage by sacrificing a lot of damage with volley to open up an elite slot.

Now what?

You mention BHA, Spike trap, smoke trap, and magebane. Now ask yourself, are those skills going to be useful in the types of farms that barrage rangers do? Then ask yourself, are you going to complete the farm faster with a volley+(new elite) than a barrage+(another skill) ranger?

If you can answer yes to both those questions, then you've found yourself a new build! If not, then it follows that barrage is still the best choice by default, not because people don't want to change.

moose_rider · Mar 05, 2008, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

It's not just because people don't want to change. What is there to change to? Ok, so you replace barrage by sacrificing a lot of damage with volley to open up an elite slot.

Now what?

You mention BHA, Spike trap, smoke trap, and magebane. Now ask yourself, are those skills going to be useful in the types of farms that barrage rangers do? Then ask yourself, are you going to complete the farm faster with a volley+(new elite) than a barrage+(another skill) ranger?

If you can answer yes to both those questions, then you've found yourself a new build! If not, then it follows that barrage is still the best choice by default, not because people don't want to change.

winner!!!!!!!

Scary Raebbit · Mar 05, 2008, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Don't even need multiple copies of BHA...
Ward Against Harm/Fevered Dreams sucks.

isamu kurosawa · Mar 05, 2008, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

It's not just because people don't want to change. What is there to change to? Ok, so you replace barrage by sacrificing a lot of damage with volley to open up an elite slot.

Now what?

You mention BHA, Spike trap, smoke trap, and magebane. Now ask yourself, are those skills going to be useful in the types of farms that barrage rangers do? Then ask yourself, are you going to complete the farm faster with a volley+(new elite) than a barrage+(another skill) ranger?

If you can answer yes to both those questions, then you've found yourself a new build! If not, then it follows that barrage is still the best choice by default, not because people don't want to change.

Well, there are many possiblities for faming tombs etc but pugs will not try them. They will stick with using a B/P setup as a safety feature because its so simple to use that even bad players can complete it.

Thats the main reason they don't want to change, Chane means they have to learn a new build when it has taken them over a year to learn b/p.

bono · Mar 05, 2008, 03:05 PM // 15:05

barrage is more of a team build... it terrible if u only have one ranger using it.
Start adding buffs and u get great dps.

favorable wind
winnowing
order of pain
mark of pain
barbs

Div · Mar 05, 2008, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa

Well, there are many possiblities for faming tombs etc but pugs will not try them. They will stick with using a B/P setup as a safety feature because its so simple to use that even bad players can complete it.

Thats the main reason they don't want to change, Chane means they have to learn a new build when it has taken them over a year to learn b/p.

So answer my questions then. Which skills would you choose? Is it faster than b/p? It gets really tiring listening to people cry about how people don't like change when the only change there is, it's for the worse.

isamu kurosawa · Mar 05, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

So answer my questions then. Which skills would you choose? Is it faster than b/p? It gets really tiring listening to people cry about how people don't like change when the only change there is, it's for the worse.

I'm not saying a change here is needed. Just that even if there was anything better it's not likely a pug team would swap over to it for a while.

Personally i have never done tombs/urgoz in a B/P team so i wouldn;t know its speed compared to what i have ran. I have only ever completed those playing necro, mes and dervish.

bungusmaximus · Mar 05, 2008, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Barrage is easy to play (that doesn't prevent teams from screwing up nonetheless), the roles in the team are pretty straight forward, that's why people like the build. There's better options then barrage (paragons, curses) but they require more solid teamplay.

BaconSoda · Mar 05, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

In the look from tombs, if a team takes Volley instead of Barrage, one person can bring BHA, for the Terrorwebs. Why waste energy with Savage/distracting if you can epidemic all of them and interrupt them while fulfilling your full dmg potential anyway? The rest can split smoke/spike trap for the grasps, which would also shut them down and even group them for a longer time for the minions to reach them and leave them vulnerable to splinter. This seems like a good scenario to me. How many times do you actually get 6 targets in tombs anyway? Four is about the average, and is the maximum of both Volley and Splinter.

In Urgoz, traps are always brought. People always asked that every ranger brought Dust Trap. Why not bring smoke trap now and shut down any casters that happen to walk into it as well, or Spike Trap for the above mentioned boosts?

Sure people don't want to change, and I have accepted that ever since I reached THK and started telling people that Vigorous Spirit was useless....But they refused to give it up, and with the limited options for healers in Proph I guess there were worse things to run... But on topic, you don't even have to cap Volley, which is quite annoying in any campaign besides Factions (Not that Smoke Trap is fun to cap, or Spike in Prophecies), and since the lowering of the level requirement in EotN, it should be open to everyone who has EotN....

Orange Milk · Mar 05, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

sure you can traps in ToPK, infact you could prolly get pretty far doing the 4 man UW build, thing is that would take forever, as would traps + volley.

"Ok, everyone, set your traps here then fall back while I go pull" on every group going to add ALOT of time to the run.

@ isamu

I agree with Holy, you go ahead and come up with a better way to do it, oh wait, you've never done ToPK B/P style so your knocking something you know noithing about and have therefore have rendered all your comments useless.

I have just one PvE Character, a Ranger, I have 3 solo farms I do, none of which do i employ the use of Barrage, or touch skills. I do, however, hit ToPk sometimes, and I splinter B/P. Goes back to the old saying, "If it's not broke don't fix it"

isamu kurosawa · Mar 05, 2008, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

@ isamu

I agree with Holy, you go ahead and come up with a better way to do it, oh wait, you've never done ToPK B/P style so your knocking something you know noithing about and have therefore have rendered all your comments useless.

And where did i knock the teambuild?

All i stated was it would take a while for pug players to adapt to a new team build if one ever arose or b/p was nerfed for example. Which is entirely true, it happened with b/p itself. I remember when tombs opened beople where running tank builds there for along time after B/P teams shown up simply because players don't like to change.

Amy Awien · Mar 05, 2008, 11:14 PM // 23:14

It's also PvE, many people do not have a character ready in every profession that becomes part of the next great team-build, or not even a slot available, Prophecies only had 4 slots, iirc.

rick1027 · Mar 05, 2008, 11:50 PM // 23:50

well as for one who has run in both of these. i have used both option and now myself i don't run the usually barrage but use volley. my thing is i'm in a guild thats does sorrows tombs and urgozs regularly and they allow these new builds i've been using after seeing how effective some of them are compared to the old b/p. now as for some of them will never change there build and its mainly because they are comfortable with them had no problems with em in the past so they use em again

Coloneh · Mar 06, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

because farming groups are for putting out as much damage as possible as fast as possible, and volley dosnt even compare to barrage in DPS with the number of targets and the recharge.